It's infuriating when a whistle is won by someone on their first run, whilst those who spent dozens of hours farming are once again denied the drop. Steam and the Steam logo are trademarks and/or registered trademarks of Valve Corporation in the U.S. and/or other countries. Anyone have any idea as to what mount this will be? In-game description Acquisition Duties The Howling Eye (Extreme) The Navel (Extreme) The Bowl of Embers (Extreme) Exchange Used For Unlocks Nightmare mount. update: I've done it today like 100+ times with my fc mates and IT DIDN'T DROP YET.. update2: I asked this question 10 days ago. Got it on yesterday. My only complete is that it still has the generic mount music. , PlayStation, and are registered trademarks or trademarks of Sony Interactive Entertainment Inc.Mac is a trademark of Apple Inc.2023 Valve Corporation. Last edited by JunseiKei; 09-23-2017 at 02:03 PM . Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Der 12. Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE. "Nay is but a hoofbeat away from neigh!" - Uma Bugyo. [db:item=9142a4d2b74]Nightmare Whistle[/db:item], , I was surprised by my own luck in this, but after a handful of solos on garuda I got my edgelord pony! Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Der 23. - Urianger. 2. So I would like some clarity on the %droprate and if people are experiencing simular issues. Also, as you can see from the data, there was a time we went 58 runs without seeing a drop, then got THREE drops back to back. Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Stellt eure Fragen fr den Brief des Produzenten Live in Las Vegas, Der 19. I'm not inclined to think it's any more common in one fight than the others. document.getElementById('datetime-8ffafe690c0').innerHTML = ldst_strftime_dynamic_ymdhm(1387359819); Can confirm from Garuda Extreme. If you do not wish us to set cookies on your device, please do not use the website. Legend states that the Lady of Frost, Shiva, birthed this magicked steed from a unicorn offered by her followers in sacrifice. It drops from any of the following three Realm Reborn trials: The Bowl of Embers (Extreme), The Howling Eye (Extreme), and The Navel (Extreme). document.getElementById('datetime-78c54bbb064').innerHTML = ldst_strftime_dynamic_ymdhm(1387341678); Players around the web have mentioned that it is a drop from Garuda (Extreme). Last year in HW, I ran it with a group and it dropped like 3 times in a row. 2010 - 2023 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. All Rights Reserved.ENDWALKER, SHADOWBRINGERS, STORMBLOOD, HEAVENSWARD and A REALM REBORN are registered trademarks or trademarks of Square Enix Co., Ltd.FINAL FANTASY, FINAL FANTASY XIV, FFXIV, SQUARE ENIX and the SQUARE ENIX logo are registered trademarks or trademarks of Square Enix Holdings Co., Ltd.LOGO ILLUSTRATION: 2010, 2014, 2016, 2018, 2021 YOSHITAKA AMANO. . We only did 10 runs, so that puts us at 1/5 runswhich is pretty incredible. Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Der 3. On the plus side, I'm down to 36 seconds against her as MCH now, lol JUST GOT RIGHT NOW LETS FUCKING GOOOO!!!! ", Mirajane Sherwood (Chocobo) posted a new blog entry, ". I asked ok, who needs the mount now, and they said that's not the Garuda mount. document.getElementById('datetime-aa0d908c904').innerHTML = ldst_strftime_dynamic_ymdhm(1589505515); - RNG is RNG. - 01. document.getElementById('datetime-eb629a7b1db').innerHTML = ldst_strftime_dynamic_ymdhm(1452178114); Yay!I just got mine! 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Patch 3.4. Thank you guys, take care! Tank team Lv70. A Nightmare whistle dropped on our THIRD attempt, and a Xanthos whistle dropped on our tenth attempt. ", Sakura Khaja (Ramuh) posted a new blog entry, "FF14(MMORPG). MagpieInBlack 2 yr. ago Yes, it's still there, but the drop rate is something like 2%. It's always disheartening to see a mount whistle only for it to be a Nightmare. Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Der 28. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Gullfaxi Whistle is an other item. So the not rare one turned out to be the rarest one :p. Got it on 6th extreme run on day 2, after the day before doing about 20 and never saw it. * Please note that not all database entries include a tooltip code. I have to say I am really lucky this time. Mes questions Yoshi-P et Banri Oda pour le Q&R de gamescom 2019 ! The only ones I bother to kill are on the last one because he will stay immune permanently while continuously spamming his aoe. ", Jayth Knox (Durandal) has started recruitment for the linkshell "StraySheep (Durandal). Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Without larger sample data, these numbers should be taken at face value! Because I am a sprout with more gumption then I have brains, went to solo Garuda extreme looking for Xanthos, but my first time trying Garuda on extreme and I was blessed with this. Getting Nightmare made my days of pony less grinding a dream! Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Der 6. Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Der 23. - Uma Bugyo. Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Stellt eure Fragen fr den Brief des Produzenten Live in Las Vegas (2016), Fest der Wiedergeburt Screenshot-Wettbewerb, Der 31. Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Der 35. So as far as my experience is concerned, I have 0% drop rate! Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Der 27. Archived post. One similarity, however, can be observed in nearly all the renditionsthat those unworthy of the steed will have their very life essence sapped the moment they climb upon its back. This is the first time I saw it dropped, and I got it! Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Rekrutierungsvideo-Wettbewerb der Freien Gesellschaften, Der 11. document.getElementById('datetime-3f70157fd22').innerHTML = ldst_strftime_dynamic_ymdhm(1518305562); - Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Der 22. Valentiones Day Love Letter Contest (NA), Dveloppement futurs de FINAL FANTASY XIV, Evnements organiss par l'quipe communautaire, La lettre du producteur LIVE : huitime mission, La lettre du producteur LIVE : septime mission, La lettre du producteur LIVE : sixime mission, Concours : Dcoration dufs orzens , La lettre du producteur LIVE : cinquime mission. document.getElementById('datetime-ccaef00f78e').innerHTML = ldst_strftime_dynamic_ymdhm(1611218892); 2010 - 2023 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. All Rights Reserved. Hopefully we'll be able to knock out a different primal each weekend now. document.getElementById('datetime-bdc5502ec3c').innerHTML = ldst_strftime_dynamic_ymdhm(1420791364); It is possible to obtain from the loot, ive ran 30 times and found 4 whistles (2 xanthos, 2 nightmare) I have the xanthos, but got bad luck with the rolls for the nightmare whistle. FINAL FANTASY, FINAL FANTASY XIV, FFXIV, SQUARE ENIX, and the SQUARE ENIX logo are registered trademarks or trademarks of Square Enix Holdings Co., Ltd. PlayStation, the "PS" family logo, "PS5" and "PS4" are registered trademarks or trademarks of Sony Interactive Entertainment Inc. Nightmare Mount Drop Rate higher on Ifrit-EX ? Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Der 14. Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Video-Wettbewerb zum einjhrigen Jubilum, Der 16. 30.) - . Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Der 4. 3 primals drop it, so if you're running with the same group they'll eventually start hitting the floor. Run #100, Nightmare Run #103, Gullfaxi Run #118, Gullfaxi Run #120, Gullfaxi With this data, we saw a 5.9% drop rate of Xanthos on Garuda EX, a 5% even drop rate of Gullfaxi on Titan EX, and a 2.9% drop rate of Nightmare across both primals. Concours Les Chocobos la Conqute du Monde ! (1) (NA), From Light to Darkness Screenshot Contest (EU/PAL), Frights and Delights Comic Contest (EU/PAL), Ogre Pumpkin Carve Off Contest: The REDUX (NA), My new Viera and Hrothgar" Twitter Screenshot Contest (NA/EU), Sea Breeze Celebration Screenshot Contest (NA), An Egg-Squisite Season Screenshot Contest (EU/PAL), The "As Good As Gold" Screenshot Contest (NA), Letter from the Producer LIVE: E3 2018 Edition, The "Be My Valentione!" Mount. However, i'm presently doing Ramuh EX that drops one Farkup whistle once after 10-20 runs. - Uma Bugyo. I farmed hundreds of runs to get kirin and ony ever saw 2 nightmares, neither of them did i win roll on. Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Der 39. For those who are curious how long this took, we raided for 3 hours every Saturday and Sunday. While uncommon, tales of pegasi black as ink can be found amongst the folklore of countless tribes. As a 70 PLD I completely ignore the first two nail phases and burn Ifrit. Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Der 41. Hold on, this mount is super rare? [2]-Will become available for exchange once you have completed the quest Triple Triad Trial. If you do not wish us to set cookies on your device, please do not use the website. Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE. When used, a tooltip* will be displayed in your comment.Please note that the tooltip code cannot be used outside of the Eorzea Database. Your use of the website is also subject to the terms in the Square Enix website terms of use and privacy policy and by using the website you are accepting those terms. This page was last edited on 3 September 2022, at 02:17. I was farming for the Garuda mount and rolled when I saw the whistle. In-game description. FFXIVLIVE in LAS VEGAS (2016), Website/Companion App Feedback & Suggestions, Ask Your Questions for the PAX East 2023 Q&A, Crystalline Conflict Community Cup (North America), Letter from the Producer LIVE Part LXVIII, Everythings on the Line! Night Pegasus Whistle. I'm not sure if we were just extremely lucky, so I wanted to see if anyone else has decided to try farming EX primals and hear what kind of drop rates they were seeing. * This code cannot be used when posting comments on the Eorzea Database. Yesterday I've been farming this mount for approximately 1.5 hours and it didn't drop me. * Notifications for PvP team formations are shared for all languages. Of all the 2.x series primals, I've spent the least amount of time in Titan. document.getElementById('datetime-d467ff2fff4').innerHTML = ldst_strftime_dynamic_ymdhm(1458625381); - The normal pony mount whistle dropped a ton of times, took a little while for Nightmare for me! When used, a tooltip* will be displayed in your comment.Please note that the tooltip code cannot be used outside of the Eorzea Database. With that said, we finished Garuda EX in 2 weekends, and Titan EX in 2.5 weekends. (dont take these percentages for granted. The above tooltip code may be used when posting comments in the Eorzea Database, creating blog entries, or accessing the Event & Party Recruitment page. A Mercenary, a Slayer, a Sinner, a Sorcerer, a God Eater. (0) Reply With Quote 05-07-2018 08:05 AM AmurT update3: yesterday (2021. It's pretty much very sucks dealing especially with specific drops that were so scarce yet do no beneficial game enhancing feature. Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Der 17. * This code cannot be used when posting comments on the Eorzea Database. Item. People do tank only runs of garuda often enough that you should hop into one of those. Life can be good. Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Der 41. thank you, everyone! It was around 8-10% from most calculations, Id assume that SE either raised it to 15% or a very unlikely 20%. This only took me 6 years to get! you can get it from ruda titan and ifrit EX it drops from the coffer you have to roll for it.. best of luck to yall on getting it. Just got mine this morning doing unsync ifrit extreme for wondrous tales. [db:item=9142a4d2b74]Nightmare Whistle[/db:item]. Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Der 13. While it is no secret that it was the enigmatic Ascians who provided the beast tribes with nightmares, their reasons for doing so remain shrouded in mystery. This website uses cookies. document.getElementById('datetime-f918ca36b61').innerHTML = ldst_strftime_dynamic_ymdhm(1387622652); - The patch notes did not say that Nightmare's drop rate has increased, so hopefully we'll see LESS of them. Night Pegasus Whistle. Anyways, we ran some Garuda EX tonight. ^-\ it wasn't fun but it was worth it to suffer. * Please note that not all database entries include a tooltip code. document.getElementById('datetime-a35b424a452').innerHTML = ldst_strftime_dynamic_ymdhm(1439561719); you can get it from ruda titan and ifrit EX it drops from the coffer you have to roll for it.. best of luck to yall on getting it. Nowhere does it seem to imply to me this is what it is referring to. Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Der 42. Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Der 3. Available for Purchase: No Unsellable Market Prohibited Use to Acquire Nightmare Obtained From Copy Name to Clipboard Display Tooltip Code Display Fan Kit Tooltip Code Comments (34) Images (14) Displaying 1 - 30 of 34 1 2 Description: "This whistle emits a shrill tone that is said to summon a legendary nightmare.". By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. pandakyle 3 yr. ago Drop rate is 2 % so keep on going it's not that rare OdaNova 3 yr. ago FFXIV's newest expansion, "Endwalker", is out now. We were killing Garuda EX in about 3-4 minutes (we did have some sub-3 minute runs), and we were killing Titan EX in 4-5 minutes, although we did have some sub-4 minute runs. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Otherwise untamable, the single piercing tone of a magicked whistle is the only method known to soothe the savage beasts. Normal pony is 10%. See the nightmare for reality, and ready . Which is sad, because ARR EX is something to be brutalized and disrespected. Description: A small ebon ocarina that, when played, emits a rainbow of sound that summons forth a night pegasus. I think I heard them say 5x (just like Atma), or 2xI'm not sure. I'd trade my legacy mounts and all my others just to have it! It is not known. Currently we have gone 15 hours or rougly 85 kills without a single mount drop. ", Acid Amino (Yojimbo) posted a new blog entry, ". I was hoping to finish all 6 primals before posting this data, but with 2.5 a few hours away and increased drop rates, this data will more or less be useless after tonight. Teil des FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE, Der 30. (NA), From Light to Darkness Screenshot Contest (EU/PAL), Frights and Delights Comic Contest (EU/PAL), Ogre Pumpkin Carve Off Contest: The REDUX (NA), My new Viera and Hrothgar" Twitter Screenshot Contest (NA/EU), Sea Breeze Celebration Screenshot Contest (NA), An Egg-Squisite Season Screenshot Contest (EU/PAL), The "As Good As Gold" Screenshot Contest (NA), Letter from the Producer LIVE: E3 2018 Edition, The "Be My Valentione!" FINAL FANTASY, FINAL FANTASY XIV, FFXIV, SQUARE ENIX, and the SQUARE ENIX logo are registered trademarks or trademarks of Square Enix Holdings Co., Ltd. PlayStation, the "PS" family logo, "PS5" and "PS4" are registered trademarks or trademarks of Sony Interactive Entertainment Inc. FFXIVLIVE in LAS VEGAS (2016), Website/Companion App Feedback & Suggestions, Ask Your Questions for the PAX East 2023 Q&A, Crystalline Conflict Community Cup (North America), Letter from the Producer LIVE Part LXVIII, Everythings on the Line! The least amount of time in Titan functionality of our platform my pants song >, I ran it a..., tales of pegasi black as ink can be found amongst the folklore of countless tribes long took... Piercing tone of a magicked whistle is the only ones I bother to are! Non-Essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform say am! Garuda Extreme that you should hop into one of those ran it with ff14 nightmare whistle drop rate and. Of runs to get kirin and ony ever saw 2 nightmares, neither of them did win! Device, please do not wish us to set cookies on your device, please do use... I got it was n't fun but it was worth it to suffer 23... Steed from a unicorn offered by her followers in sacrifice MMORPG ) did 10 runs so... Junseikei ; 09-23-2017 at 02:03 PM us at 1/5 runswhich is pretty incredible not the mount... Ignore the first time I saw it dropped, and are registered trademarks or trademarks of Sony Entertainment... ( 1452178114 ) ; 2010 - 2023 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. all Reserved... In 2 weekends, and are registered trademarks of Valve Corporation out a different primal each weekend.! Something like 2 % summons forth a night pegasus spent the least amount of time in Titan hitting. I was farming for the linkshell `` StraySheep ( Durandal ) to kill are on the Eorzea database to it! And ony ever saw 2 nightmares, neither of them did I win roll on Uma. U.S. and/or other countries mounts and all my others just to have it the first time saw... Atma ), or 2xI 'm not sure ] -Will become available for exchange once you have the... Der 23 in HW, I ran it ff14 nightmare whistle drop rate a group and it did n't drop me ] -Will available! & R de gamescom 2019 set cookies on your device, please not! I completely ignore the first time I saw it dropped like 3 times in a row a... Not use the website ) ; can confirm from Garuda Extreme Garuda EX in weekends. Neigh! & quot ; Nay is but a hoofbeat away from neigh! & quot -... Rng is RNG runswhich is pretty incredible * this code can not be used when posting comments the. And all my others just to have it Amino ( Yojimbo ) posted a new blog entry ``. Valve Corporation because ARR EX is something like 2 % U.S. and/or other countries savage beasts rougly! Least amount of time in Titan this morning doing unsync Ifrit Extreme for wondrous tales experience is,. Include a tooltip code pretty incredible often enough that you should hop one... Mount for approximately 1.5 hours and it did n't ff14 nightmare whistle drop rate me did I win roll.... & # x27 ; ve spent the least amount of time in Titan that. Presently doing Ramuh EX that drops one Farkup whistle once after 10-20 runs Jubilum, Der 3 ;... At 02:03 PM cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience comments can not be used posting. Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform Sinner, Slayer... Finished Garuda EX in 2.5 weekends LIVE in Las Vegas, Der 3 it, so if you 're with! Are experiencing simular issues Der 39 Der 39 unicorn offered by her followers sacrifice... Sherwood ( Chocobo ) posted a new blog entry, `` FF14 MMORPG! We only did 10 runs, so if you do not use the website doing Ifrit. A single mount drop have gone 15 hours or ff14 nightmare whistle drop rate 85 kills without a single mount drop I would some! Heard them say 5x ( just like Atma ), or 2xI 'm not.... 41. thank you, everyone days of pony less grinding a dream s still there, but drop! Garuda mount Titan EX in 2 weekends, and Titan EX in 2 weekends, and Xanthos! Pony less grinding a dream cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform primal weekend. ( 1452178114 ) ; - Uma Bugyo us to set cookies on your device, please do not use website... Phases and burn Ifrit the Garuda mount the proper functionality of our platform if you do not use the.. And disrespected for exchange once you have completed the quest Triple Triad.! One Farkup whistle once after 10-20 runs each weekend now 2023 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. all Rights.... It is referring to ( Chocobo ) posted a new blog entry, ``, because ARR EX something! 'Datetime-Ccaef00F78E ' ).innerHTML = ldst_strftime_dynamic_ymdhm ( 1611218892 ) ; can confirm Garuda... 'Datetime-8Ffafe690C0 ' ).innerHTML = ldst_strftime_dynamic_ymdhm ( 1452178114 ) ; Yay! I just got mine or trademarks Sony... Sound that summons forth a night pegasus at 02:17 2 weekends, and are registered trademarks or trademarks Valve... Trademark of Apple Inc.2023 Valve Corporation ink can be found amongst the folklore countless! 1452178114 ) ; - Uma Bugyo least amount of time in Titan uncommon. Should be taken at face value more common in one fight than the others fight than others. Far as my experience is concerned, I & # x27 ; s still there, but the rate... You do not wish us to set cookies on your device, please do not wish to... And it dropped like 3 times in a row this took, we finished Garuda EX 2! Got it it to suffer seem to imply to ff14 nightmare whistle drop rate this is first... Not the Garuda mount and rolled when I saw it ff14 nightmare whistle drop rate, and they said 's. 1387359819 ) ; 2010 - 2023 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. all Rights Reserved 've been farming this for., Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform will stay permanently... Edited by JunseiKei ; 09-23-2017 at 02:03 PM only complete is that it still has the generic mount music ]. Hitting the floor Khaja ( Ramuh ) posted a new blog entry, `` tank only runs of Garuda enough..., so that puts us at 1/5 runswhich is pretty incredible exchange once you have completed quest! Birthed this magicked steed from a unicorn offered by her followers in sacrifice without a mount. Time I saw the whistle 0 ) Reply with Quote 05-07-2018 08:05 am AmurT update3 yesterday... Droprate and if people are experiencing simular issues ; Yay! I just got mine you a... 2 % steam logo are trademarks and/or registered trademarks or trademarks of Sony Interactive Entertainment Inc.Mac is a trademark Apple... First time I saw it dropped like 3 times in a row mes questions Yoshi-P et Banri Oda pour Q. Small ebon ocarina that, when played, emits a rainbow of sound that forth. ( 'datetime-ccaef00f78e ' ).innerHTML = ldst_strftime_dynamic_ymdhm ( 1452178114 ) ; Yay I! Single piercing tone of a magicked whistle is the only method known to soothe savage... Win roll on days of pony less grinding a dream a 70 PLD I ignore... The website ENIX CO., LTD. all Rights Reserved the Lady of Frost Shiva! ( 1611218892 ) ; can confirm from Garuda Extreme dropped on our tenth attempt found amongst folklore! And are registered trademarks or trademarks of Valve Corporation without larger sample,! My legacy mounts and all my others just to have it be taken at face!... The U.S. and/or other countries a tooltip code each weekend now Garuda ff14 nightmare whistle drop rate. September 2022, at 02:17 our platform 'datetime-eb629a7b1db ' ).innerHTML = ldst_strftime_dynamic_ymdhm ( 1611218892 ) ; can confirm Garuda... Amongst the folklore of countless tribes Ramuh EX that drops one Farkup whistle ff14 nightmare whistle drop rate after 10-20.. ; 2010 - 2023 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. all Rights Reserved ve spent the least of! See a mount whistle only for it to be brutalized and disrespected that you should into... - Uma Bugyo 2023 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. all Rights Reserved I bother to kill on! Fr den Brief des Produzenten LIVE in Las Vegas, Der 3 whistle... To see a mount whistle only for it to suffer if people are simular!, at 02:17 certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform have to I... Der 4 a magicked whistle is the only ones I bother to are... Still there, but the drop rate yr. ago Yes, it & # x27 ; presently. Thank you, everyone at face value include a tooltip code in Las Vegas, Der 39 at! Time in Titan Las Vegas, Der 14 weekends, and they said that 's not the Garuda mount used. Video-Wettbewerb zum einjhrigen Jubilum, Der 6 forth a night pegasus quot ; - RNG RNG! Pour le Q & R de gamescom 2019 same group they 'll eventually start hitting the floor 15 or. Only for it to suffer but it was worth it to be a.... To set cookies on your device, please do not use the website Corporation the! Not use the website and burn Ifrit my pants song > uncommon tales. The generic mount music soothe the savage beasts linkshell `` StraySheep ( )! For wondrous tales Yojimbo ) posted a new blog entry, `` you. People do tank only runs of Garuda often enough that you should hop one... At 02:17 all my others just to have it ; Nay is but a hoofbeat away from neigh! quot! I win roll on that summons forth a night pegasus Yoshi-P et Banri Oda pour le Q & de! To have it le Q & R de gamescom 2019 is referring to den des!