You would probably have to ground up whole planets just to get the material you need. Since this is about 400,000 times the radius of the solar system (using the aphelion of Pluto as the marker - forget the Oort cloud for now), this suggests a pretty heroic structure, even by Dyson Sphere standards, and causes one to wonder exactly where the materials will come from. These days, astronomers talk instead about Dyson Swarms dense arrays of orbiting energy collectors. This makes me wonder: If the black holes in other galaxies were covered in dyson spheres Could we detect that currently? But let's run the numbers anyways. This perception is based on a literal interpretation of Dyson's original 1960 paper. Even as this advanced alien civilization soaked up all that energy, they could not help but bleed off excess heat into space, lest their platforms melt entirely. Orbits are not required for keeping rings or spheres in place. It has a drilling depth of up to 5,000 meters and a hole diameter of up to 8 inches. A Dyson swarm is a collection of individual, smaller "harvesters" of some kindthat could be solar panels used extremely close up, for examplethat are loosely circulated. And what Winterberg is saying is that something's got to give, like the wave nature of matter. Launch vehicle: $500 million to $1 billion, Mining robots: $5 million to $20 million per unit (depending on the type and complexity of the robot), Drilling equipment: $10 million to $50 million per unit (depending on the type and complexity of the drill), Metal refining equipment: $50 million to $100 million per unit (depending on the capacity and efficiency of the equipment), Storage and transportation equipment: $10 million to $20 million per unit (depending on the size and capacity of the equipment), Power generation equipment: $50 million to $100 million per unit (depending on the type and capacity of the equipment), Communication and navigation equipment: $10 million to $50 million per unit (depending on the type and complexity of the equipment), Human support equipment: $50 million to $500 million (depending on the extent and complexity of the equipment). Q: Ok, assuming we are building the Dyson sphere above, what kind of metals would we need? Gekko Systems InLine Leach Reactor is a modular system used for leaching and recovering metals from ores and concentrates. Related: 'Dyson sphere' legacy: Freeman Dyson's wild alien megastructure idea will live forever (opens in new tab) Named by the CTA as a CES 2020 Media Trailblazer for his science and technology reporting, John specializes in all areas of computer science, including industry news, hardware reviews, PC gaming, as well as general science writing and the social impact of the tech industry. If you like what we do, please consider making a donation. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Notes: Never inhabited due to launch or on-orbit failure, Part of the, Feasibility and science-based speculation, Science Fact and Science Fiction: An Encyclopedia, "Search for Artificial Stellar Sources of Infrared Radiation", "STARSHIP CENTURY SYMPOSIUM, MAY 21 - 22, 2013", On the Inevitability and the Possible Structures of Supercivilizations, "When Will We Find the Extraterrestrials? One example of a multi-junction solar cell that could be used for this application is the Boeing Spectrolab XTJ Prime. Maybe have something that's mentioned in this video by Kurzgesagt? What Lies Beneath the Ice of Jupiter's Moons? If nothing else, it would be able to provide excellent starting points. What are major sources of these materials in the solar system? How can I detect when a signal becomes noisy? Try two super freaky ideas from the edges of astrophysics. Ryugu: Ryugu is another carbonaceous asteroid that has been studied by the Japanese Hayabusa2 mission. Robotics and automation equipment: Robotics and automation equipment can also be used for communication and navigation purposes, such as controlling mining and refining equipment remotely. We're talking about a civilization that would be able to harness the power of earthquakes, volcanos, hurricanes, and even the energy output of the Earth's core all at once. Since Dyson's paper, many variant designs involving building an artificial structure or series of structures to encompass a star have been proposed in exploratory engineering or described in science fiction, often under the name "Dyson sphere". By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Additionally, the availability and accessibility of these sources may depend on the specific location and conditions of the Dyson sphere construction. Assemble the raw materials into larger components of the Dyson sphere, such as individual panels or segments. Q: Ok, now add up all these costs and give me an approximate number. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Okay, so we have our two super freaky ideas. This distance would need to be far enough away to avoid the intense heat and radiation of the sun, but close enough to capture a significant amount of its energy. Copper Copper is relatively rare in the solar system and is mainly found in the crusts of the rocky planets. Originally, the scale numbered from I to III, with Type I being a civilization capable of harnessing all of the energy of their home planet (humanity isn't even close to this stage yet). Can a rotating object accelerate by changing shape? The mass of an average asteroid can vary widely, but we can use the mass of the largest known metallic asteroid, 16 Psyche, as an estimate. Solar panels could be used to generate electricity on the asteroids surface, or a nuclear reactor could be used for continuous power generation. Should a civilization this advanced exist, then they would probably already know of our existence by the time we discover the black hole Dyson sphere. Honeybee Robotics Planetary Deep Drill: This is a lightweight, compact drill designed for deep drilling on other planets and asteroids. Its design could potentially be adapted for use on Psyche to mine the asteroids metal surface. Or at least, harder to tell that it was a Dyson Sphere.. A: Asteroid mining is a potential source of various metals that could be used for building a Dyson sphere around the solar system. [16][17], Although Dyson sphere systems are theoretically possible, building a stable megastructure around the sun is currently far beyond humanity's engineering capacity. Proton exchange membrane (PEM) fuel cells: These are a type of fuel cell that use hydrogen and oxygen to produce electricity, with water as a byproduct. Towing them around does require a rather large-scale propulsion system, though. Q: What would be a good way to send all this equipment to Psyche? : You cant pull energy out of a black hole, its physically imposible, just like you cant travel in time. After all, dont black holes swallow everything that falls into the event horizon, including light? The estimated cost for a new DM30 II is around $1.5 million. (We need a theory of quantum gravity to really understand what happens at the singularity.) :D, I wish I'll have some energy fraction gettable from previous spheres as well as a reward. Use MathJax to format equations. Tungsten: Tungsten is a very hard and dense metal that could be used in the construction of the Dyson spheres high-temperature components, such as lighting filaments and electrical contacts. Building a Dyson Shell around a black hole? It will be capable of carrying up to 130 metric tons of payload into low Earth orbit, making it one of the most powerful rockets ever built. More information: Tiger Yu-Yang Hsiao et al, A Dyson sphere around a black hole, Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society (2021). Nothing with structural strength high enough exists, and it would require continual adjustment to not fall into the star/black hole. The wavelengths of such re-radiated energy may be atypical for the star's spectral type, due to the presence of heavy elements not naturally ocurring within the star. Unexpected results of `texdef` with command defined in "book.cls". Number of asteroids required = Mass of Dyson sphere / Mass of average asteroid Number of asteroids required = 5.03 x 10^5 kg / 1.7 x 10^19 kg = 2.96 x 10^-14 asteroids. I don't think so Dirk. GRBs don't happen for nothing. See this 2001 paper by Friedwardt Winterberg. I think it's essentially correct. Why? Take a rev2023.4.17.43393. Black holes make better engines for Dyson Spheres than stars. Worldbuilding Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for writers/artists using science, geography and culture to construct imaginary worlds and settings. A: Its difficult to provide precise numerical estimates for the amount of silicon, carbon, and metals that would be needed to build a 2 m thick Dyson sphere at a distance of 2 AU from the sun, as the design and engineering of such a structure is purely theoretical and dependent on a number of unknown factors. In a recent study, scientists analyzed the possibility of an advanced civilization harvesting energy from a black hole. All rights reserved. There will be a component of velocity due to the black hole's gravitation. Carnegie Mellons Scarab is a prototype robot designed to autonomously search for and collect mineral samples in extreme environments. It could be used for constructing the outer layers of the Dyson sphere that will be exposed to space and cosmic radiation. NY 10036. One example of a PEM fuel cell that could be used for this application is the Ballard FCgen-H2PM fuel cell. The main use of building a Dyson swarm around a black hole would be to capture the energy released by its accretion disk. Caterpillars 797F is a large haul truck used for transporting bulk materials in mining operations. A: I apologize for the error in my previous response. I overpaid the IRS. Would accretion discs and the massive gravity well pulling in everything around you not be a worry, in the future? It uses a combination of liquid oxygen and methane as fuel and is designed to be fully reusable, with the ability to launch and land multiple times. The major sources of each of these metals in the solar system vary depending on the specific metal. A: Assuming a constant annual GDP growth rate of 2.5%, we can use the formula: where FV is the future value (i.e., $6.117 x 10^33), PV is the present value (i.e., the current world GDP, which is approximately $85 trillion), r is the annual growth rate (i.e., 2.5% expressed as a decimal, or 0.025), and n is the number of years. Dyson Sphere Program > General Discussions > Topic Details Legion One Feb 26, 2021 @ 11:10pm 3 Black Holes If you go through a black hole there should be However, even if we were able to completely disassemble these planets and use all of their material, its still unlikely that we would have enough material to construct a Dyson sphere of the size and composition you specified. And that's challenging.. So really, the considerations are the size of the hole, being able to safely capture and distribute the power output, dealing with gravitational extremes, etc. The black hole is surrounded by its event horizon, a boundary that outlines the black hole from which nothing that enters the black hole can be observed from outside. Orbits near a black hole are strange and dont follow Keplers laws, and things are more interesting with rotating BHs. [5] This could indicated the presence of what has been called a Type II Kardashev civilization. Thanks for that. Design the Dyson sphere to be modular, allowing for individual components to be assembled in space and gradually added to the structure over time. WebWhat if we could engineer a gigantic megastructure capable of harvesting every bit of the Sun's energy? Under the right conditions, the matters self-gravity overwhelms everything else, leading it to collapse into what we call a singularity where all the mass gathers in a single geometric point. What they find could help us reveal what a next-generation galactic civilization might look like, and even help us locate those extraterrestrials in the process. Should the alternative hypothesis always be the research hypothesis? Aluminum Aluminum is a lightweight metal that is also strong and corrosion-resistant. The recent paper argues that if an alien civilization were to build the Dyson sphere around a black hole, it would be detectable in ultraviolet, near-infrared, and mid-infrared wavelengths. I was aiming at a ball park estimate instead of an exact figure. Identify asteroids: The first step in asteroid mining is to identify suitable asteroids. 16 Psyche has an estimated mass of approximately 1.7 x 10^19 kg. The next surrounding Dyson sphere would absorb this waste heat and use it for its computational purposes, all while giving off waste heat of its own. The estimated cost for a new LM90 is around $500,000. Q: Give me a hypothetical step-by-step procedure for building a Dyson sphere around the solar system. Several organizations, such as NASA and private companies like Planetary Resources and Deep Space Industries, have already identified potential asteroids for mining. But, the galaxy is an immense place with an estimated 400 billion stars in it. I expect there would be neutrinos too, but it's still a pretty dramatic conversion of matter into energy. Multi-junction solar cells: These are a type of solar cell that use multiple layers of semiconductor material to absorb a wider range of wavelengths of light, resulting in higher efficiency. In principle, no, you cannot make a Dyson sphere which is indistinguishable from the CMB. The reason is fairly simple. Let's start with a blackbody Share Could aliens suck the energy from black holes with Dyson Spheres? It has a differentiated interior, which means that it has distinct layers of different materials, making it an interesting target for scientific exploration and mining. This could be done using spacecraft or by launching the metals from the asteroids surface using a catapult-like device. Alternately, you can think about an entire world powered by electric batteries instead of fossil fuels. Q: I think you have made a mistake. These are usually drawn as a ring of collectors that share one orbit so they all stay in the same line. Possible wavelengths for a hot Dyson Sphere to be detected in different black hole mass. The basic component is like a little brick, and we know how to build bricks to build solar panels and load them into space. It only takes a minute to sign up. A: Adding up the costs of all the equipment required for a hypothetical mining mission to Psyche would be difficult and dependent on a variety of factors. That we do not see them because managed BHs are the optimum places for high computation civilizations. Give specific examples. What information do I need to ensure I kill the same process, not one spawned much later with the same PID? Lets describe them nevertheless. DOI: Io: Io is one of the moons of Jupiter and is known to have a high concentration of sulfur and other volatiles on its surface. The most promising method for extracting metals from asteroids is likely to be a combination of mechanical and chemical processing. Valve Corporation. A Type II civilization refers to the Kardashev scale (opens in new tab), a way for astrobiologists and cosmologists to classify the potential energy available to extraterrestrial intelligences. Develop a system for safely disposing of waste materials generated by the construction and maintenance of the Dyson sphere. Can I ask for a refund or credit next year? By creating a space-based structure, an alien civilization could meet the energy needs to push its civilization to the next level. Refining equipment: Once the metal has been extracted from the asteroid, it would need to be refined to remove impurities and separate the different types of metal. One example of a thin-film solar cell that could be used for this application is the First Solar Series 6. Q: What are some specific examples of drilling and mining robots that we can use? I am reviewing a very bad paper - do I have to be nice? Dyson spheres have not been detected yet, but an advanced alien civilization would surely need them. It uses a rotary-percussive drilling method and can drill up to one meter deep. Earth, for instance, is a type 1 civilization under this rating system, because we only use the amount of energy available on our own planet. Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. Nuclear Reactor could be used for constructing the outer layers of the Dyson sphere above what. In time are not required for keeping rings or spheres in place meet the energy to... Spheres as well as a ring of collectors that Share one orbit they! - do I need to ensure I kill the same PID with estimated. Is another carbonaceous asteroid that has been studied by the Japanese Hayabusa2 mission D, wish. Our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy depending on the specific location and conditions the. Use of building a Dyson sphere construction can think about an entire world powered by electric batteries instead an... Matter into energy if we could engineer a gigantic megastructure capable of harvesting every of... 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